symmetric encryption broken

[Michael H. Warfield]

On Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 10:13:01PM +0100, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,

> Michael H. Warfield:
> > 	Huh...  Wait a minute.  You're encrypting it once and then
> > encrypting it a second time.  What are you trying to accomplish here?

> Some ciphers are symmetric. If you DES-encrypt something, and then "encrypt"
> the ciphertext again, you magically get the plaintext back.

	Some are.  Damn few.  DES definitely NOT.

	Encrypt DES != Decrypt DES...  Take a good look at Bruce Schneier's
Applied cryptography.  In particular, look at the section on 3DES where
he describes the EDE mode (Encrypt Decrypt Encrypt mode).  When all three
keys are equal (K1 = K2 = K3 = K) you have 56 bit DES compatibility mode
because the "D" reverses the first "E".  If the algorithm were symetrical
there would be no need for that distinction.  Classical 112 bit 3DES has
K1 = K3 while 168 bit 3DES has all three keys different.

	What's more, there are several OTHER things going on here.  One,
he is ascii armoring the file.  Even if he used the NULL cypher (re IPSec
and the exportable Caeser Cypher :-) ) he would have still ascii armored
it twice.  As it so happens, he passes it through the encryption algorithm,
then ascii armors it (the -a option) to generate a new text file.  The
second encrypt is going to encrypt the ascii armored output of the
first encryption.  Armoring twice is certainly not going to be symetrical!

> The same thing works with any cipher algorithm which computes a secure
> hash and XORs it with the plaintext. (You could use MD5 as a cipher that
> way.)

	A XOR stream cypher such as RC4 would work like this (and is one
of the primary reasons why WEP encryption for 802.11 is so severely
BROKEN) but DES is a BLOCK cypher.  It doesn't work that way.

> -- 
> Matthias Urlichs     |     noris network AG     |     http://smurf.noris.de/

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw at WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (678) 463-0932   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!